Hi Asren,
My first thought about you running for mayor is that there does not seem to be much air between you, Mayor Michael Lyon, and Cr Mark Swivel. What’s your point of difference?
Yes, I have been asked that already. It is a common perception, and that’s because we have worked well as a team. We discuss things and compromise, and we have landed on the same page a lot.
What would you do differently to Mayor Lyon?
I would take a more interventionist approach to getting better outcomes from housing and developments. Michael has had a bit more of a laissez-faire approach. People being able to do their own thing on their (developable) land is something I believe we can have more influence on to get better outcomes. One thing I want to see is the ability to roll out a master plan within land rezoning strategies. Instead of rolling out more residential lots and urban sprawl, we can get more medium density in exchange for saving more green space, which is what is needed and required to fix the housing problem.
So, start negotiating with developers prior to rezoning?
Yes, we can’t have input after the rezoning is done, as the developers can skip us and go directly to state planning. We need more medium density and diversity in housing, and we need to discuss how our 20% of affordable housing is utilised and introduced.
But are there any large residential rezonings happening soon where this 20% affordability contribution is going to make a difference?
Yes, Saddle Road is huge, so in Brunswick is going to be a lot. Also, the one in Bangalow is going to be the first where the council is going to be able to build diverse housing. I want to have a conversation with the Bangalow community on whether we can build to three-storys at the bottom of the hill, as that is where we can get an economy of scale and deliver genuine affordable housing at a cheaper price. Maybe they won’t be up for it, but I’m keen to have the conversation.
Do you believe we can create a new village – especially on the rail trail?
I am open to it; it’s worth talking about. These planning processes take a long time—decades. A totally new village does not meet the state government’s requirements. They want new development to be expansions of existing urban areas and to be contiguous. But I think it is worth discussing. To be honest, a lot of this discussion will be after Saddle Road. That was not contiguous, and that development may be a template of we can get to look at as a potential new village in the future.
One issue that you seem to be out front with is the idea of more bike paths and the rail trail. Is shifting the shire to embracing more active transport like walking and bike trails a big agenda item for you?
Absolutely! We have to! Rail Trail is like the spine, and then we can have more spokes coming off that – to extend the analogy. One of the things I want to do is have the conversation to take it away from the idea that the rail trail is just a tourism activity and shift it to the idea of what it will do for locals, particularly in Bangalow, where I live. It will just be a game-changer. Connecting the middle of town with the industrial estate, and particularly connecting Mullumbimby with Brunswick Heads and Ocean Shores.
Then if we look at something like the Marshall Creek Boardwalk for example. (Connecting Ocean Shores Shopping Centre to the New Brighton beach). It’s only a small proposal but it will avoid a giant hill and will make everything there more accessible.
Yes, I agree, but where the Greens differ on this is they believe because it is a National Park and includes some high-value vegetation, it is not possible.
Yes, we will have to work through it, and of course, if it is going to cause too much environmental impact, it may not be possible. But I’m not going to start with a No. Let’s start with a Yes and try to work through the issues. The nature reserve is already impacted by informal trails. Making it a more formal walkway may have better environmental outcomes.
What about the idea of the Light Rail between Mullum and Byron and Bangalow to Byron? You have come up against the pro-rail lobby over the years. Do you think there is any viability of that getting funded?
Well, not Bangalow to Byron, as we are building the rail trail there. It is now council policy, as I got that through council. I am dubious about the viability of a light train between Byron and Mullum.
Even just extending the existing Solar Train?
The solar train is apparently not profitable. I have not seen any figures so I can’t be definitive. But the solar train was built to service a giant resort – it is not a commuter train, its for guests to get into town.
How would you fix housing if you had all the levers and control at your disposal?
I don’t know if it is fixable at all in the short term. There are macro issues about taxation and all kinds of things that are just beyond what we can influence or do. But as a start, I would focus on a conversation with the community about where we can have higher density so that you can build those different housing types, and protect more green space at the same time.
Not just freestanding housing in greenfield estates, which I think is the worst possible outcome, but diverse housing that includes facilities like parks and amenities. When you scatter housing out like confetti, like we are doing with Community Title or urban estates, the sewerage services, roads, power, and infrastructure are so expensive. You can’t build bike paths because they’re so unaffordable. People are in their cars a lot more, which is bad for the environment in general, and we lose a lot of bushland.
What’s your relationship with the council and staff? Do you believe council staff are productive and efficient? Are we getting good value?
To be honest, I don’t want to scapegoat staff. They do have KPIs. Our DA processing times are down from where they used to be. They are in the middle of the pack with other regional councils. I know that may be shocking to some.
The affordable housing development in Bangalow, between Granuaille Road and Rankin Drive, will be the first in the state. The council will get a block of land of around 5000 M2 where it can build affordable housing, and this is where we would like to see some density.
Yes, but will the council have the will or the capacity to do that? Will you have an internal developer appointed or subcontracted out?
We don’t have an answer to that, but hopefully, we can access some of the housing funds becoming available through the state government. I know a lot of people here are suspicious of Labor and political parties in local councils, but what that means is I can go to the housing minister, who has a budget of $6 billion, and ask if we can get some of that.
Some other councils have a development department, manage council assets, and are a bit more entrepreneurial. Would you look at that?
It’s an interesting idea. It would probably be more possible if you were doing that on a commercial basis. Still, if you are doing that for affordable housing, there is a huge financial risk, as affordable housing to build and maintain is a marginal endeavour at best. You could end up losing a bunch of money.
New residents to the shire are probably not aware of your family history. Your grandad Clifton was an Archibald-winning artist. Your dad, Dailan, has a very vocal and visible activist. Walking around barefoot and consistently writing opinions and standing up for wildlife.
My weekends with my dad were always spent camping out and going to spotlights at logging hot spots or doing fauna surveys—that’s what we did. I have the same passion for protecting the environment. I was one of the founding members of the Labor Environment Action Network, and it has had lots of success.
It seems unusual that you would have been a better fit with the Greens. Why didn’t you go there?
Because I wanted to achieve things and not just talk about them. They are not effective at achieving anything. I want to get in and get things done.,
So, you think the Greens are more into getting attention and playing to the gallery than being effective?
Yes, that is exactly what they do. I remember people like Ian Cohen in the old days being as proactive as possible in needling who was in power, but I do not at all see any of the Green representatives today being politically or socially productive and achieving better outcomes.
So, you think if you got your hands on the gavel, you would be more productive, and the council you lead would endeavour to be proactive and effective by doing politics and negation better than the others?
Yes, I do, but in a collaborative and collegial way. I know I just criticised some people like Duncan (Cr Dey), and he can be a very frustrating person, but he does have a part to play and represents a section of the community. So, you will see that in terms of this council, there were motions that we moved and seconded together. I will work with anybody, but I am not interested in grandstanding.
If you were to win as mayor, how would you like to leave the shire in four years?
Rail Trail delivered. If I can deliver or at least have it on track, I will deliver my vision for housing—not just urban sprawl but diverse housing with a proper master plan and emergency housing. One of the things I started in my first term was introducing a policy for housing for traditional owners. I met with Arakwal, and two things they asked for were jobs and housing in the country, and that’s a work in progress. As well as a culture centre in town.
Thanks Asren, good luck with the campaign.
This interview was conducted before the team changes. Asren Pugh’s Labor team will include #2 Janett Swain, #3 Mark Swivel, Peter Doherty, Linda Lascelles Watson and Diana James. See more info in the All The Candidates page.
You can read the previous interview with Sarah Ndiaye here.
The previous Q and A with Michael Lyon is here.